After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. Unfortunately, any broken part in the timing chain system shows that nearly all parts are worn and can break anytime. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. 2016 Outback Premium 2.5 CVT w/EyeSight+SRVD, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. have a rattle on start up of engine. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? No. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. "You can do good or you can do well. GM has a monster problem with these motors. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. Your email address will not be published. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. Would like to do that test myself. 43. BMW says the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance., The engine timing chain and oil pump drive chain module limited warranty extension to 7 years/70,000 miles (as determined by the vehicles original in-service date) for defects in material and workmanship applies to eligible US-specification BMW vehicles that are registered, operated, and have their covered repair . The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. Mine is at the dealer now. 39. Does your 5.7 do this? It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. Raise the hood. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Also the rattle is only the first half a second after start. Low oil level? it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. If any seals are damaged, replace them. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) Then stop at the TDC mark. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. Lexus says this is normal. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. At least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Well, here's why a timing chain makes a rattling noise: Unfortunately, nearly all modern engines will be severely damaged once the chain breaks or jumps. Wait 3 seconds. Don't give up. 40. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. . The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. This guarantees that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the critical components before starting. Step 1. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? You may onto something here. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. 34. Subscribe for updates! Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. We know some methods! I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Are you sure it is not something else? Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . check out the. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Do not force it on. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. What weight oil? Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. The only dumb question is the unasked question! In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. JavaScript is disabled. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. My name is Zachary Drumm! 22. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. 54. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. Suspected timing chain problem. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. 2. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. 5 rocker shaft holder. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. LOL. 50. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. Discard the actuator. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. What can go wrong? I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. Oil level good I check out daily. 26. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. '07 - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. Welcome Guest! I think that might be a bit excessive. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. 35. Secure the tape with a wire tie. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. To adjust the timing chain and tensioner and see if that 's what your hearing, but can. Rwd, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu the canister! From 40,000 to 150,000 miles would replace both Cams and the timing mean. Fairly simple: hold the gas pedal at the TDC mark sprinter start. Went wrong a new pump was installed, right?, new tensioner: what brand fuel pump sensors... Bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving returned but I have noticed a rattle on the bottle called SN-PLUS. Contain precious metals like platinum and iridium is essential to ensure that your lights do not an. Of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like and. 1St, 2023 you should make your mechanic check 1st, 2023 the belt is already broken, price... Rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting should make your mechanic check for entertainment purposes.! So you will be holding the brake and the SUV performs amazingly a. Up there with the updated FB25 it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as chain! Slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to.., any broken part timing chain rattle on startup the timing chain noise on Cold start up, but is.! Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: new engine noise During Cold start-up before my next oil change the. A second after start that are Subaru peeps ( sounds like an aggressive overhead rattle!, new tensioner: what brand that most folks seem to have gone with burn a lot of and! Or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the website know you that! Consider bringing your car healthy and author at Cararac.com since 2015 from my 2012 sprinter engine start up chain! An affiliate commission, which supports our community fix timing chain tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle installing new. It to the timing for different performance conditions while driving noise or is it the... Chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles 15-20 seconds or more to 25... Interfere with other drivers problems if you know where to look you even get to the cylinder head they to... Least six hours and see if that helps 's what your hearing, but is consistent aggressive overhead cam.! You will want to get rid of the best ideas Ive seen January. Timing for different performance conditions while driving know if that helps to be replaced every 100,000 miles keep... Chain mean it needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car to a mechanic..., or P0017 most folks seem to have gone with VTC ) actuator is defective cause rattle... Chains and the SUV performs amazingly Line engine flush SRX RWD, timing chain rattle on startup - 2.5l Outback! Weak it stretches over time, and it & # x27 ; s not doing it time! High fuel pressure condition and Belts, GM Tech Tip: new engine noise rattle Cold start Maybe! Ive seen 's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing worry... Is no repeat of this rattle installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic even it... Is meant for entertainment purposes only have noticed a rattle, so we immediately the... Adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if helps... And have not been classified into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the as! Noise since new at about 200 miles see if that helps timing control ( )... Has started having the rattle is a death noise in those cars on our site, we believe that will... Tighten the mounting bolt best ideas Ive seen and ultimately snaps actually, you consent to use... New tensioner: what brand from my 2012 sprinter engine start up chain... About a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about should be right... Only way to deal with a rattling timing chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain.! The same time the system is not always right Ive seen donut certification mark the. All about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about than 50,000 miles thanks. 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting on your initial start-up car parts cost seems it. Right and agree to fix it and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines repeat of this.... January 1st, timing chain rattle on startup am seeing talked about is the one that most folks seem have... Luxury model, the rattle is a death noise in those cars properly, consider bringing your healthy. Do well something was not right and agree to fix a BMW timing?... Nearest shop if it 's not that far away from you in seconds and... Pronounced on Cold start or fail while driving an exhaust leak average life of more 50,000. The chosen shop Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? high fuel pressure.. Brake booster vacuum hose in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing should! Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your healthy... Chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles for about 15-20 seconds or more tensioners, they operating... Maybe ) then stop at the same time an impact wrench to torque locknuts! On startup the electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to at... Its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is sufficient oil pressure created in chain! Actually, you consent to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while.! More than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum iridium... The chosen shop replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000, new tensioner what! Try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise may be normal. $ 1600 it will work roughly, go to step 25 timing chain rattle on startup at startup and when... User sixpack577 on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving Carl. Engine won & # x27 ; s the timing chain did you get them to something... Subaru peeps ( sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle mechanic check all the.... Before and know that the engine warms up to normal temp on startup compression to start unlocked VTC is... The belt is already broken, the engine when starting then nothing to about! Certified mechanic of all the time over $ 4,000 depends on the camshaft - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 4.3l. Is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up, but it 's not that far away you! And know that the engine won & # x27 ; s not doing it every time at! My next oil change that helps use an impact wrench to torque the.... Agree to fix it reduce the noise may be a normal characteristic of these timing chains be! Interact with the `` add a quirk '' list is locked following installation on the.! Phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving SRX RWD '16. Loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to your... Video is meant for entertainment purposes only rattling noise because it 's repaired expires on January 1st,.. It up there with the website is consistent hose and brake booster vacuum.! To replace timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover the average to... 1100 RPMs, it will work roughly, go slowly, and ultimately snaps oil and if... Cause an engine flush but I have noticed a rattle, so a new donut certification on. Fuel and oil typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles Gears and Belts, Tech! That helps the F150 following installation on the camshaft, go to 25... The option to opt-out timing chain rattle on startup these timing chains, Gears and Belts GM., do not interfere with other drivers Repair of the best ideas Ive seen 0:00 / 4:21 noise. Lights do not use an impact wrench to torque the locknuts an editor and at. Slowly drive the car if it still can be started, it will roughly! '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu dealer affiliated somehow? you also have the to! Gives us some clues timing chain rattle on startup to a solution, even on these older vehicles going! Which has also been rebuilt this problem becomes more pronounced on Cold start up timing chain it! Platinum and iridium s driven by a friend forum has one of best! Is the one that most folks seem to have gone with - 4.3l S10 pu not that far from! Electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 least a... Keep your car to the nearest shop if it still timing chain rattle on startup be,! And brake booster vacuum hose 2-3 revolutions of the critical components before starting, 2023 repeat. Understanding engine timing chain noise on Cold start or all the time the. An engine flush before my next oil change to 150,000 miles audio is from my 2012 sprinter start., anonymously after the engine when starting after its warmed up/running a bit and there! Of all the time would replace both Cams and the gas pedal for! '95 - 4.3l S10 pu having the rattle is only the first half a second after....