Contains the quotes I read aloud about Barbara Snyder (healed from M.S.) Elijah: they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences like you're assuming some type of causality there um and i i think if you even allow for the possibility of something like the christian god to exist then um you've got to take seriously that it could be his action and then make an inference to the best explanation and where i think the voice of science comes in the best is in eliminating hypotheses not necessarily proving that's his voice and so you can go back and go well there's seven different hypotheses science can help us before eliminating some and then we've got two or three and we've got to critically think and go what do i think's most likely the case and i think that's the human situation and we make that call all the time we make it in court. A particular response has now happened twice in an ongoing discussion about extraordinary claims, and I felt I needed to think about it more deeply. Doesn't seem to be anything other than perhaps theology. Sometimes God uses things. The AAUs members include such Just, was it last night I think, we were talking and David Dockery was sharing about Grant Osbourne, a scholar friend of ours who passed away just this past month after an amazing career of scholarship, but when he was young he had asthma. James: I'm not a fan of eliminating explanations because i think that that's almost impossible because you can always augment the hypothesis with further details, so the issue is going to be one of comparative plausibility and explanatory scope. So even when, you know it doesn't happen to all of us. Reserve today is in a position to attract a broad range of outstanding She talked about when here daughter Terese was two years old that she cried out that she had been bitten by a snake and by the time her mother had got to her she found her not breathing. This is like the difference between theists asking skeptics to explain how the disciples ate fish with Jesus, when in reality what we have to explain is that we have a text that has a story where the disciples ate fish with Jesus. There were plenty of other stories just like it, too. Scott Rae: Nabeel Qureshi, for the sake of our listeners who might not be aware of him, was one of the most, the most compelling apologists to Islam having converted to Christianity out of Islam himself. That fact alone is strong evidence that miracles are not real. A noted Christian scholar and ethicist, Scott is the author of such books as Moral Choices: An Introduction to Ethics; Business for the Common Good; and Beyond Integrity: A Judeo-Christian Approach to Business Ethics. If miracles are real then these steps -- while possibly inconvenient -- would be easy to demonstrate. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. I mean it's only a fraction of what's out there, but there was a Pew Forum Study done in, I think, 2006 of Pentecostals and Charismatics in 10 countries that concluded Well if you look at the percentages of Pentecostals and Charismatics who claimed to have witnessed divine healing and then the hard numbers of those in those countries, it comes out to somewhere around 200 million people in those 10 countries alone, who claim to have witnessed are experienced divine healing. Keener quotes a study that showed that half of the physicians studied said that they had seen what they consider to be miracles. The answer is simple none. And he said he prays for people here in the U.S., but it doesn't happen. This explores some of the rarer causes, but more importantly, the study they reference for the viral cause for the condition had cases that resolved in as long as 2 years (N=11). And Jesus answers him with words from Isaiah 35 and Isaiah 61 saying, "The disabled will walk. Do you have a testimony that is medically verified?. Craig Keener: Yeah, and by the time Yeah and eventually it was over a 1000. Without further data, it is impossible to rule out these things, but you'd think the data would be available with something this recent? This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up my child and walk, Strobel recounted. Certainly months in the case of severe atrophy over the course of years. An immediate thought is how many times was he prayed over and nothing happened? You just wonder how legitimate are these miracle claims in the 21st century? Strobel said. We know that the healing was observed after the prayer, but we don't know if it caused it because we can't rule out an earlier recovery that went unnoticed. She wanted to be with her family even though there was a war going on. This seems really strange, if we are to believe the magnitude of the healing -- she claims to have gone from nearly blind to nearly perfect instantaneously, yet doesn't get this checked out immediately? The outcome was either a change in vision or hearing. A question also came out that if the scientific standard seems too high for these theists, in which discipline would the standard not be too high? We had to cut 45% of it to make it as short as it was, but then again, I'm not known for writing short books. Once you admit there are other agents, you need a process for actually determining that God -- as opposed to some other agent or natural process -- actually was the cause. The precise timing of Snyders She was blind, bedridden with severely impaired breathing due to a paralyzed diaphragm and a collapsed lung. This is totally expected on naturalism, but not expected under theism. I mean I tried to get accounts from all sorts of different cultures. #media. Pharmaceutical companies don't complain about these steps, they just do the work. I commented on the story here but there is very little to go on. The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. administrators, including President Snyder herself. Even if you said it had to be supernatural, how could you rule out Loki doing it, just for fun? And there were a number of other people who also, who were there at the occasion, who knew him before and after, who could testify to this. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. As Nathan puts it, it's telling believers who doubt "stop those naughty thoughts." "So, we know that at least 450 Christians began praying for her, because they wrote letters saying, 'We're praying for you.'". We should celebrate that. It makes it very hard to investigate these claims because you have to spend so much time trying to work out what is actually established. Her feet and fingers were suddenly straight and normal again. First of all, is that true? But even with miracles, life expectancy is higher here than in Africa. I want this post to be the place where I put as many of the specific miracle claims, the actual evidence presented, and some of the responses. Yeah, I think of my friend Nabeel Qureshi. At least there is documentation published at https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/. And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.. He had asthma all his life. You've done tremendous work on it that is a huge benefit to the Kingdom, not only with your technical biblical scholarship, but with this incredible stuff you've done on miracles. "It got to the point where she was dying. In fact, history is full of bizarre coincidences that get downright creepy . These theists are in fact arguing for a lower level of evidence than we demand of the universities and pharmaceutical companies for their claims. This pretty much summarizes the problems with this study. its future, DiSanto said. It should further be noted that the subjects in the study were not chosen from the random population but from a self-selected group that already believe in the efficacy of the treatment. But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. Look, I have male pattern balding. If the Anchor.fm widget isnt showing up above, click here to listen. My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. They also make the claim that, for example, in Heidi Baker's ministry in Mozambique these healing happen "all the time" and are thus replicable. Lina refuses to let Kathy get any recognition and keeps her behind the scenes, taking all the singing credit for herself. Bladder and stomach control were lost. conversation that I was a part of here: Bad Apologetics Ep 20 - Miracles & even MORE even NEWER Resurrection evidence where we respond to the Unbelievable? But anyway, all healing is temporary because sooner or later we're gonna die unless the Lord comes back before then. Christian epistemologist, software engineer, musician, not necessarily in that order. Further, the authors admit, although they do not disclose the data, that previous attempts to document response to the treatment in other populations have failed. 2023 Blaze Media LLC. University. The dead will be raised." And as a Christian I naturally did believe in miracles. After serving in several leadership positions at Moritz and within the central university, Barbara became OSUs interim executive vice president and provost in 2003 before securing that position on a permanent basis the following year. Case studies may be suggestive, but they are there so that you can propose hypotheses to test more rigorously. into our next chapter, said McRobbie, who is also the president of Indiana President Barbara R. Snyder announced today that she will [] these things actually do tend to happen in certain circles more than more than in others and that's why for me it would be hard for me to see it as a is a coincidence. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. Case Western Reserves Board of Trustees It just really annoys me this is always conflated. The video of the miracle itself doesn't show much, and seems to show potentially abusive behavior of people lifting her out the chair, and supporting her as she attempts to walk in a far from medically controlled environment. It is pretty clear that not much can be said confidently. Keener: There's confirmation bias I think that can happen either way. I also think that there is a two-stage process for investigating these and similar processes (i.e. I'm just wondering, is it possible to do it the other way around? Whining that it's hard is just lame. CT Patterns of Lung Disease, Dr.. Barbara Cummiskey Snyder is on Facebook. And she'd also gone blind. 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