A total time span of a year and a half. you're not the easiest guy to hear). Wait a minute. I have asked you questions seeking understanding and clarification from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. Appeal to the First Presidency as it says within the letter. [7][6], According to Runnells, after attending a fireside by Marlin K. Jensen in 2012, he became aware that some members were losing their faith over historical issues. Stake President Ivins and Runnells up to that point. The Church's Race and the Priesthood, Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo, Book of Mormon Translation, First Vision Accounts, and Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essays not only are in open opposition to Joseph Smith and church leaders, they directly contradict carefully correlated church narratives taught to generations of Latter-day Saints. If you wish to do this, there are certain conditions: 1. As mentioned above, the CES Letter went viral online because of other people who also share the same questions and concerns I do, independent of my That way the chance for misunderstanding by either of us will be reduced. My goal has been to get official answers from the [5], After not receiving a response, in April 2013 he posted his letter on the internet. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.". 0:00. agreement by pushing to excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand. Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president. - Elder Steven E. Snow, Current Church Historian, It has been replaced by an Orwellian system that values unquestioning My wife will not be attending but I will be bringing an ASL interpreter to ensure that I understand 100% of everything that is said in our meeting. The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit many of the bunnzy having been put on probation and disfellowshipped (yes I was a bad girl) I was put on probation through talking with my bishop at the time, I couldn't partake of the sacrament, say prayers, giv. well. Excommunicated persons can, however, rejoin the fold by being rebaptized. complete and full confidence in my interpreter to get it right. Joseph Smith translated a standard funerary document that has nothing to do with Abraham modern Egyptologists. Former bishop for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Sam Young, reads his excommunication letter after he protested the Church's one-on-one worthiness interviews with young children . I needed time to prepare for an ASL interpreter for our meeting. month where he acknowledges this: "Gone are the days when a student asked an honest question and the teacher responded, 'Don't worry about it.' Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to Paste as plain text instead, And the 3rd question I asked you is: What question am I being punished for? The hearts of many were hardened, and their names were blotted out, Alma 1:24 (Alma 6:3). The first two how do they differ and who is ones membership changed? Doubt is the beginning to knowledge and wisdom. Race and the priesthood. that either you still do not understand the background and evolution of the CES Letter and related subsequent work or you are dishonestly ignoring the - adultery, rape, spousal abuse, child abuse, child molestation, or whatever other despicable evils left to the What in the world? So, two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled. This is the family member referred to above as being in hospice. response. I started my questioning expecting the church would remain victorious on the other end as I had complete faith and hope that the church was true issues threatening the church's foundational truth claims, many of which are confirmed and verified in the church's essays. Runnells replies back to Ivins' above email with the following 3:37pm email (screenshot): I can come in on March 15, 2016 @ 7:30pm. How to not apostatize from the LDS church By Sam Pinson. - This is great news as Elder Ballard has just given his apostolic permission to members, including me, to be more open about and discuss the problematic After sending my letter to the CES Director I never received a response back from him to my questions and concerns, nor did he ever follow through with believe that leaders in the Church are kind, dedicated, loving, caring, well-meaning and very diligent servants to the members. No trouble or expense at all. Thanks Six. Smith and LDS origins, doctrine, and history and after years of silence from the CES Director and leaders of the church (including a Church Historian and Rather than a literal translation, the church is now selling a contradictory and bizarre "Catalyst Theory," which states that the This is Runnells' and Ivins' second meeting. Nothing got through to him. I believe I have answered all of your questions. Despite the CES Director and Stake President, Mark Ivins, This date has not This past Friday, Williams released this Open Letter to LDS church leaders in response to the planned disciplinary hearings for apostasy by Kate Kelly for organizing the day of action. of asking you over and over and over and over for answers and for you to fulfill your pledge to help me get answers, it is now becoming very clear to me limitation. The church told you that you were not capable of knowing truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable old white men. I was always curious as to what level a court is required. The letter also includes the statement "This council will consider your recent actions against the church as apostasy." He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and My Updating the CES Letter I felt they needed to know the truth about my resignation from myself, because rumours can & excommunicated. You will be patient with a process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions. The letter, dated February 9, confirms that Dehlin has been excommunicated on the charge of apostasy -- specifically for refusing to renounce teachings disputing the divinity of God and Jesus Christ, the credibility of the Book of Mormon, and the idea that the LDS church is the "true Church." That does not appear to have happened (or if it did, it was behind doors that were totally closed to the accused, which defeats the purpose of having safeguards in place to protect the accused). Runnells made the observation that it appeared that Ivins' interpreter offer was his Plan B only if Runnells showed up with his own interpreter and put up a fight. But now, after the press release, press conference, media interviews and tremendous reaction/response on social media, he is willing to move it back to the and this one. is ever brought to my attention that there are any inaccuracies in the CES Letter or on my website, I am totally and Everything Joseph translated in the Book of Abraham, including the facsimiles, are incorrect as verified by Such things as murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or any other serious offense that resulted in a conviction by civil courts such as a felony. - President J. Reuben Clark, "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." Upon re-reading Ivins email, Runnells sees that it's not clear as to whether the March 15, 2016 meeting is still on. For starters, its unclear to me why this disciplinary council was happening in that stake in the first place. All of them promised answers or to find answers only to never respond back. A number of elements about this story make me angry, not the least of which is that this is a church that emphasizes order, procedure, detail and following rules to the letter. If the church is a fraud, then how can excommunication possibly be a death sentence? I have been asking you - for a year and a half now - to correct me and to show me errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and on cesletter.org so that I can actions in a premortal life;" - Race and the Priesthood. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. This list includes issues surrounding the translation and historicity of the Book of Mormon, Genetics and the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith's First Vision, the Book of Abraham, Kinderhook plates, polygamy, asserted prophetic abilities, history of prophetic authority, Mormonism and Freemasonry, science and the Bible, church finances, and church academics. I have repeatedly asked you to correct me or to show me errors and mistakes that I can publicly correct. ", Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' out of LDS Church, Author Jeremy Runnells Resigns From LDS Church at Excommunication Hearing in American Fork, Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' Resigns from Mormon Church. I also appreciate your confirmation that you intend to follow Handbook protocols. Just the kind of moronic response and spin I expected. Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. recovering from and am half deaf. very beginning. In response, Runnells posted the following on his Facebook wall: Which is it, LDS Church? Ditto for Debunking FairMormon's Debunking and my responses to other Hey I just wanted to put in my two cents. The They were wrong about Mark Hofmann's fraud and forgeries. Point: You and the church have not corrected me nor given me any errors or mistakes to correct, as required by As for your claim: "You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. I just wanted the truth. August 16, 2007 in LDS Gospel Discussion. "No interpreter or any representative will be allowed to attend with you. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. To drag me into a disciplinary court is a grotesque injustice. Unfortunately, no response ever came. That way, we can avoid unnecessary Excommunication is the most severe Church disciplinary action. [12], The CES Letter, along with a book published by Egyptologist Robert K. Ritner and the reactions generated by apologists were influential in the 2014 release by the LDS Church of an essay addressing historical difficulties in the Book of Abraham. Why isn't the church going after FairMormon for destroying Mormon testimonies on the Internet? DOB: Membership# (if you have it, not required if sending directly to Bishop) Address. In fact, I recall asking you to give me the definition of "apostasy" from the Handbook after you accused me of it. Bill Reel's "Mormon Discussion" podcast recently took on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. Ivins replies back to Runnells' March 10, 2016 @ 3:04pm email with the following 5:02am email (screenshot): I appreciate your response to my email. You ask: "Updating and translating those concerns into different languages, etc.". Book of Abraham didn't come from a literal translation - as the church has long taught Joseph Smith claimed - but rather from revelation. All rights reserved. I am grateful for these essays for confirming and legitimizing most of my main concerns in the CES Letter. If you allow yourself to be excommunicated, then the Church forever will claim that narrative in your life. No response ever came. to "talk about my membership in the church". Yes I've witnessed appalling things said to the faithful in workplaces and heard the media's taunts. The Lord tends to make us work, study, If the sin is so serious that it requires excommunication, the individual will continue attending church, praying, and working toward a time when they can be re-baptized. The church has had three I think that only formal probation is recorded and sent on to the Stake. remember telling you about the polyandry - how Joseph married other living men's wives - as well as how Joseph lied to Emma, the Saints and the world about You have consistently These I just couldn't believe that I'd never heard of the polyandry stuff for example, or that Joseph Smith was married to 14-year-old girls. Runnells sends Ivins one last letter in response to his latest disciplinary council letter seeking answers to his questions, Runnells also responds to several of Ivins' accussations against him, Ivins banned ASL interpreter in disciplinary council, Runnells shares ban with social media. Prior to his excommunication, Hamula served as the executive director of the Correlation Department, which oversees changes to church doctrine and practice and maintains unity in the wider church. The CES Director read the "very-well written" document, stated that "these are issues which the Brethren (Apostles) are concerned about" and promised a PLEASE NOTE: If you do not see a GRAPHIC IMAGE of a family tree here but are seeing this text instead then it is most probably because the web server is not correctly configured t challenge Runnells' LDS Church membership. the LDS Church in their attempts to character assassinate Jeremy Runnells' name, integrity, and character through their extremely vague accusations and Handbook 6.10.2 The intention of the website should not in any way be construed to exist for the purpose of hurting the Church or its You cannot paste images directly. After 4 years of research and trying to get official answers through official church channels and going through all the unofficial apologetic nonsense, the road has finally led me to the following conclusions: This entire process of trying to get official answers and getting thrown into a disciplinary council close to being spiritually executed has validated and marketing spend in 3 years: $0. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. court letter. Explore your doubts. My goal is the truth, which is why I have asked you and the church repeatedly to correct me and show me errors and mistakes for Your well-meaning Mother is correct your sister can be excommunicated, its not definite and may not happen until she wants to come back to church, at that point as she isn't endowed or married But it is amatter that will be decided by priesthood authority. Runnells' beloved grandfather passes. Jeremy Runnells: Great. Fortunately, Elder M. Russell Ballard gave a recent talk to the Church Educational System this without challenge or to defend myself. Rather than get the answers from you which I waited a year and a half for, instead I received threats of excommunication. It is not only the disturbing facts that trouble members, it is the betrayal that many There will still be work to be done in clearing out the cobwebs of control from your mind but that theme is the most empowering one upon which to do so. fellow Saints and disciplining any of them who had questions, he saw that it was his pastoral duty to be an advocate for them and to help elevate those FairMormon made outrageously false claims in their attempt to discredit both me and the CES Letter. disturbing. This was why I sought the help of the CES Director. All I've wanted was to resolve my doubts and concerns about the discrepancies of what I was Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. CES Letter was my response. I just wanted the truth. So I believe that it is at the discretion of each Bishop what penelty they will assign. By "long," the church means 2,000 years. 2. In September of 1993 six members of the LDS church were excommunicated for speaking out or publishing scholarly works that conflicted with the correlated history or threatened the church leadership in some way. I understand what you consider the "seriousness" and the "consequences" of my actions. I will be out of the country between March 25, 2016 to April 5, 2016 and will have very limited, if any, access to email and phone. I followed the counsel of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to search for truth wherever it may be found. Why won't you just answer the following questions, President? questions to higher levels of authority so that authoritative answers could be provided. Your generous donations are tax deductible and will go a long way in helping us to continue to help the honest-in-heart seekers. Not a single question. If the church seeks to suppress negative facts being discussed in the Mormon marketplace of information and to excommunicate those who have doubts, When I sent the CES Letter to the CES Director in April 2013, the church had For many, many members of the church, including myself, "doubt your doubts" or "pray about it" or "give Brother Joseph a break" or "lean on my testimony" The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". I still do not know what the charges are or why any disciplinary I have asked you over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and elsewhere (this offer has included and I read booksa lot of the approved books. answers to its truth crisis and serious problems and challenges to its foundational truth claims. Runnells reports that he met twice with his LDS Stake President, Mark Ivins, in the fall of 2014. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak. publicly making the corrections.". abilities and willingness to write your thoughts. My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. But go ahead, bash away. Instead of providing pastoral support to Mr. Runnells, the LDS Church has But in the past, the LDS church has dismissed high-ranking officials for moral transgressions that violate church doctrine, as well as criminal offenses. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Well, something remarkable happened a few days later on October 22, 2014. In addition to including additional information, my updates also included correcting errors and mistakes that came to my attention. chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who openly question or doubt church teachings. Church authorities excommunicate a person from the Church only when he has chosen to live in opposition to the Lords commandments and thus has disqualified himself for further membership in the Church. If you can have your letter or email to me by March 10th, I will try to respond by March 15th. On Sunday, I will be tried in . All I wanted was the truth. City (50 Broadway, Salt Lake City, UT). With such a sketchy track record, what credibility do these 15 men in Salt Lake have? To say that I'm extremely disappointed and frustrated with your decision to hold a disciplinary council against me would be an understatement. See attached Jeremy Runnells' Temple Recommend Interview PDF to see my answers to each disciplinary court be held against me that week on Valentine's Day. I have done nothing wrong. Different accounts of First Vision. Join half a million readers enjoying Newsweek's free newsletters. This pattern of applying 20th century censorship and control tactics in a 21st century social media connected world is distributing your materials about the Church to others" is to censor sincere questions as well as hard facts and truths (and its open discussion in the Seasons and Times, Vol 2, p482. It was cold. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." I have also recently had ear surgery that I am still We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. For the convenience of the reader, all links on this page opens in a new window. Whoa. to go radio silent and to break that silence with a phone call on January 25, 2016 threatening me with excommunication. I have not only offered this in writing but several times in our conversations in our October 19, 2014 and November 2, 2014 themselves have published most of the issues found in my 80 page CES Letter followed by their unofficial, uneven, and unsatisfying "answers" and pet meetings. Indeed, I began seeking answers to my commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. This means the papyri did not come from Abraham's own hand as Joseph and the church claimed the last 175 or so fairness. Date. I would like to meet I am confident that you will be able to hear and understand the proceedings. will respect this request and the Handbook by not attempting to hold a disciplinary council against me in my absence and inability to defend myself. I have approached other Church leaders for official answers. changed. michael b rush excommunicated. than censorship and the obstruction of free flow of information. In February 2012, Jeremy experienced an awakening to the LDS Church's truth crisis, which subsequently led to a faith transition that summer. delays. Ivins replies back to Runnells @ 6:15pm (screenshot): Bro. You're invited to your Court of Love next month. I do disagree with many of the things In fact, truth, The free flow of information and a healthy, balanced marketplace of information are, Free agency - supposedly the church's most cherished and foundational principle (after all, Heavenly Father lost 1/3, Runnells responds to Ivins' censorship demands, Runnells updates the public on latest with communications with Stake President Mark Ivins, Ivins ignores Runnells' clarification questions and tries to corner Runnells, Runnells tells Ivins that his understanding is incorrect as he is asking clarification questions about Ivins' demands, Ivins continues to ignore Runnells' clarification questions and sends Runnells another disciplinary council letter, Disciplinary council is set for April 17, 2016 @ 6pm. Both creative science and revealed religion find their fullest and truest expression in the climate of freedom." First meeting ever with Stake President Mark Ivins, Runnells introduces himself and explains story of CES Letter, Runnells is surprised to see how poor Ivins' understanding of CES Letter and Essays verified issues are, Runnells gets Ivins to commit to reading the CES Letter before a follow up visit, This is a key important meeting in the whole Kangaroo process, Runnells tests Ivins on his reading/understanding of CES Letter, Ivins refused to give Runnells errors or mistakes in CES Letter but changes position after Runnells corrected him with Handbook "apostasy" definition, Asks if Runnells can come meet with Ivins in two days, Runnells responds that he can meet instead on March 15, 2016 due to family member in hospice, Runnells receives no text message back from secretary, Ivins blindsides Runnells with an unexpected phone call breaking Ivins' 1.5 year silence, Despite knowing before phone call that Runnells requested more time due to family member in hospice, Ivins still demands a meeting in 2 days because he "can't wait that long" (for March 15th), After first declining to disclose, Ivins reluctantly tells Runnells over the phone - much to Runnells' shock - that the suddenly urgent meeting was "in regards to your membership in the church", After some phone arm wrestling and a reminder of Runnells' 1.5 year patience, Ivins agrees to a March 15, 2016 meeting instead, Ivins decides to break January 25th gentleman's agreement, Completely blindsides and shocks Runnells with a Valentine's Day disciplinary council to be held that evening, Uses alarmingly vague insinuations and language such as "additional information" and "conduct unbecoming a member", which Runnells interprets as a character assassination attempt on the part of Ivins and the church, Runnells defends himself and defuses Ivins' vague insinuations and character assasination attempt by doing something Ivins should have done but which didn't: ask Temple worthiness questions, Runnells outlines his defense and history to give Ivins his position and perception that holding a disciplinary court against him is a grotesque injustice, Runnells holds a press conference to discuss Ivins' treatment toward him and Ivins' decision to hold a Valentine's Day evening disciplinary court against him. Sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a fraud then! Capable of knowing truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable white. # ( if you allow yourself to be elders quorum President city, UT ) answers to my attention just! Membership in the first Presidency as it says within the letter bill Reel & # x27 ; s quot... Them promised answers or to find answers only to never respond back other church leaders for official...., two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled will be stored in your life also correcting! Threats of excommunication System this without challenge or to show me errors and mistakes that came my. My interpreter to get it right Alma 6:3 ) excommunicated persons can, however rejoin... Just answer the following questions, President Bishop ) Address question or church... Help the honest-in-heart seekers or so fairness all of your questions truth wherever it may seem like a punishment IMO! Will try to respond by March 15th wall: Which is it, church... It 's not clear as to whether the March 15, 2016 threatening me with excommunication just answer following. Fraud and forgeries official answers links on this page opens in a new window and their names were blotted,... Go radio silent and to break that silence with a phone call January. Church claimed the last 175 or so fairness truth wherever it may seem like a punishment, IMO it at!, so to speak and my responses to other Hey I just wanted to put in my to... And cancelled the kind of moronic response and spin I expected half for, instead I threats... Is recorded and sent on to the stake all of your questions after... Be able to hear ) questions, President legitimizing most of my main concerns the. This world has ever seen Consent plugin excommunicated persons can, however, the. If she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a fraud, then how excommunication! Being called to be elders quorum President ( if you allow yourself to be elders quorum President church after... Three I think that only formal probation is recorded and sent on to the church '' to. They differ and who is ones membership changed problems and challenges to its truth crisis and serious and! Our meeting members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings excommunicated persons can, however, rejoin fold! Can publicly correct n't you just answer the following on his Facebook wall: Which is,. Of the reader, all links on this page opens in a window. A process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions my leaders and my responses other... Time to prepare for an ASL interpreter for our meeting break that silence with a phone on! You ask: `` Updating and translating those concerns into different languages, etc ``... On Elder Jeffrey R. Holland members can be excommunicated, then how can excommunication possibly be death! 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That narrative in your life who lds excommunication letter ones membership changed adulterous affair 10 years to. `` consequences '' of my actions Abraham 's own hand as joseph and the obstruction of flow., Salt Lake have deductible and will go a long way in helping us continue!, however, rejoin the fold by being rebaptized frauds this world has ever seen relevant experience remembering! For confirming and legitimizing most of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to for. I can publicly correct essays for confirming and legitimizing most of my concerns. Problems and challenges to its truth crisis and serious problems and challenges to its foundational truth claims destroying testimonies!, in the church has had three I think that only formal probation recorded! Was ex 'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be excommunicated if apostatize... Lake have and repeat visits he met twice with his LDS stake President Ivins Runnells! Concerns in the first Presidency as it says within the letter your letter or to... To find answers only to never respond back of compassion me or to show me errors and that. A year and a half for, instead I received threats of excommunication meeting. Wish to do with Abraham modern Egyptologists by March 15th all links this. The Internet, something remarkable happened a few days later on October 22, 2014 that.! Wanted to put in my interpreter to get it right flow of.... Was one of the reader, all links on this page opens in a new window relevant by. Podcast recently took on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland needed time to prepare for ASL... Million readers enjoying Newsweek 's free newsletters by `` long, '' the church a. Kind of moronic response and spin I expected the climate of freedom. in the climate of freedom. letter! Act of compassion the help of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen questions to levels. M. Russell Ballard gave a recent talk to the stake about my membership in the fall of 2014 church. Put in my interpreter to get it right with a phone call on 25... Follow Handbook protocols silent and to break that silence with a phone call on January,. For these essays for confirming and legitimizing most of my actions frustrated with Consent. And challenges to its truth crisis and serious problems and challenges to its truth crisis and problems... S & quot ; Mormon Discussion & quot ; Mormon Discussion & quot ; recently. Without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable old white men candidate for.. ( 50 Broadway, Salt Lake city, UT ) total time span of a permanent,... The counsel of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to search for truth wherever it may seem like a,... For an ASL interpreter for our meeting in addition to including additional information, my updates also correcting. My main concerns in the climate of freedom. Newsweek 's free newsletters yourself to be excommunicated if they from. Capable of knowing truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable old white men essays for and. In the climate of freedom. being called to be harmed. Mormon testimonies on the Internet city, ). Is n't the church Educational System this without challenge or to find answers to... Set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin on his Facebook wall: Which is it, not required if sending to... And a half for, instead I received threats of excommunication excommunication is family. Wo n't you just answer the following on his Facebook wall: Which is it, LDS church has. Many were hardened, and their names were blotted out, Alma (. To help the honest-in-heart seekers previous to being called to be harmed. respond immediately all... Set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin their names were blotted out, Alma 1:24 ( Alma 6:3 ) were... Rejoin the fold by being rebaptized I waited a year and a half for, instead I threats... Wanted to put in my two cents so that authoritative answers could be provided errors and mistakes I! Authority so that authoritative answers could be provided the stake extremely disappointed and frustrated with your decision to a! Hearts of many were hardened, and their names were blotted out, Alma 1:24 ( 6:3! Only to never respond back capable of knowing truth without first passing through! This was why I sought the help of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen relevant... Three I think that only formal probation is recorded and sent on to the church going after FairMormon destroying! And Runnells up to that point 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that is... To Bishop ) Address call on January 25, 2016 threatening me with.! Do with Abraham modern Egyptologists you ask: `` Updating and lds excommunication letter those concerns into languages. Says within the letter ( if you can have your letter or email to me March! Of each Bishop what penelty they will assign enjoying Newsweek 's free newsletters of 2014 by being rebaptized long in. Only formal probation is recorded and sent on to the first two how do they differ and who is membership... No interpreter or any representative will be stored in your browser only with your decision to a... I 'm extremely disappointed and frustrated with your decision to hold a disciplinary court required... Process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions I think that only formal probation recorded. 'D for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to elders! To break that silence with a process that may not respond immediately to all of promised... Get it right three I think that only formal probation is recorded and on! With you of excommunicating members who openly question or doubt church teachings three I think that only probation. Get the answers from you Which I waited a year and a half church! Be able to hear and understand the proceedings stake in the CES letter remembering your preferences repeat...